Commentary: Does 4-H create cold-blooded killers?

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You know there’s disconnect between rural and urban folks when the local 4-H kids come under fire as desensitized to the suffering of animals. Agriculture may believe 4-H, FFA and the Boy Scouts are wholesome efforts to educate our children, but there’s apparently more than a few misguided souls who think otherwise.

The issue of 4-H desensitizing kids to the plight of animals came to the fore this week when CNN’s Eatocracy ran a 5@5 feature with chef Kelly Liken on the topic of Five Reasons to Buy from Your Local 4-H. CNN said, “We quickly identified within the comments two distinct perceptions of the organization – which was originally set up by the United States Department of Agriculture to train the rural youth of America in hand-on skills like agriculture and raising animals. One was that 4-H promotes responsible animal husbandry and the cultivation of food resources in a responsible, ethical way and the other was that it serves to desensitize children to the suffering of animals.”

Here’s a sampling of the comments posted on CNN’s site following the story:

 

In cold blood

I don't and would never support the 4-H. This group helps desensitize youngsters into having no emotional attachment to animals raised for food. For those who say no one should have attachment to animals raised for food, I say "of course". This is how the meat industry stays in business. If children are raised to love all animals and not try to see them as products, they would not be interested in seeing them killed. "Listening to the auctioneer and seeing how excited the children get when their animal is purchased is an incredibly fulfilling experience."

Really? Incredibly fulfilling experience. You mean knowing the animal that trusted you from birth is off to be mistreated before being slaughtered! That's fulfilling? Maybe that's because the 4-H has successfully desensitized these children who may have once be appalled by this. It's simply horrific. Shame on you 4-H for what you do to animals and to children. - Heather King

Education, not desensitization

What 4-H does do is promote responsible animal husbandry and the cultivation of food resources in a responsible, ethical way. I accept your position that any killing of animals for food is, in your position, not ethical or moral, however most of us are omnivores and I for one would rather that those producing the meat I choose to eat do so in a humane and ethical way. I respect your position, but I would also hope that you would rather see people brought up to understand, and therefore demand, that there an ethical way to treat an animal even if that animal's eventual purpose is the nourishment of a human being.

Desensitization is the wrong word–education is the right word. These kids (I was one) are not at all desensitized to the process–rather, they are educated about proper raising and care of these animals. Not only was I a member, but growing up we also purchased meat and produce from 4H and FFA members–talk about locally sourced! We could be confident in the quality, origin, and raising of these products in a way we can rarely be in a supermarket. - Value rather than desensitization

A lasting impact

Have you ever been at a 4-H auction? Most of the younger kids end up crying after their animal gets bought and not donated back. As they grow older, they wrap their head around the idea, but when they're first starting out they have a hard time accepting it. It doesn't mean they're "desensitized" to it, it's the fact they they've matured and understand that animal's purpose more as time goes on. - Brianna

The circle of life

Someone asked earlier in the thread how many 4-H kids had actually seen an animal slaughtered. In my club back home (rural Sierra Nevadas), the answer was ALL OF US. We toured the packing houses where our animals would later be slaughtered (note packing HOUSES, as these buildings housed perhaps thirty head at an outside estimate, nowhere near large enough to call a "processing plant"), examined carcasses, viewed the taking of animals lives and the bloodletting afterwards, and were given briefings on the saws and tools used. This while spending hours a day bathing, training, feeding and cleaning up after our own still very alive animals. - 4-H fo'sho'

The value of life

It is really so unevolved. Why are people proud that the kids are crying as they lead their animals onto the trailer to be killed for food? You are teaching them that relationships are disposable. That  animals are disposable. NOT A GOOD LESSON, and these poor animals raised as pets are off to the slaughterhouse where they will be tortured before they die. - Kathy

It keeps them off the streets

Small scale food-animal raisers aren't cold blooded killers, they're making money doing what they enjoy doing. If anyone is desensitized to animal life, go to Youngstown [ed: where the commenter grew up] and talk to all the thugs on the street that grew up around murders happening weekly. THEN you'll find someone who doesn't value human or animal life.

If I have kids, you bet they'll be in 4-H. I'd rather see them doing that than doing what most of the people I grew up with did. Kids deserve more of a chance than what drugs, crime and partying can offer them. - Brianna

The divide between agriculture and the rest of society continues to widen. Increasingly few Americans have any ties to a farm or rural life, and as those ties were lost, so was the recognition by many that food comes from some place other than a grocery store. In many respects, it’s understandable that some in our modern society are uncomfortable with the facts of food animal production. More distressing, however, is that many are convinced those animals are “tortured” prior to slaughter.

That’s evidence that the handful of well-publicized incidents of animal abuse have done significant damage to the image of our industry. Repairing the damage done by a few demands constant vigilance on the part of every stakeholder – including our junior members in 4-H and FFA.


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Dixie Wallace    
Tx  |  June, 24, 2011 at 08:16 AM

I was a 4-H leader for 12 years and had 2 children who showed livestock. Of course, they got attached to them, but they also realized that the purpose of raising livestock is to provide meat and other products to the human race. What would you suggest? That they have a 2000 lb pet, that eats all day and is of no value to anyone and a very expensive pet to keep. Be sensible, if you don't want to eat meat,milk,eggs,cheese, etc. don't eat it , but for heavens sake, leave 4-H out of the picture. 4-H r's for the most part are good citizens, law abiding, family loving and just plain good kids. BRING ON THE STEAKS AND PORK CHOPS!!!!

Mike    
Nevada  |  June, 24, 2011 at 09:54 AM

Are people so out-of-touch with reality?? Seriously, I do not believe they have any idea where their food and fiber comes from! If it is not mined, it has to be grown!! and as far as these people thinking these animals are tortured in the slaughter plants...these people have no clue! It is very humane. It is not that are 4-H and FFA kids are de-sensitized...it is they have been educated and have become realists

M    
NE  |  June, 24, 2011 at 09:54 AM

4-h is a great program to teach kids reponsibility. I agree totaly with Dixie Wallace. Bring on the steaks and the pork chops. It's not like people are misleading children by putting them in 4-h to show animals.

Lynne Catania, DVM    
NC  |  June, 24, 2011 at 10:16 AM

I have nothing but good things to say about the 4-H program. In fact, I know I am not the only one that is out there that can say that I owe my career to 4-H! I set forth to become a VETERINARIAN from my experiences growing up and exhibiting my dairy cattle in 4-H. And, I have also given my children that experience. 4-H teaches a sense of values and responsibility and educates our children as to where our food comes from in this country, and how it is raised....again, "responsibly!" As unfortunate as it is, our society is moving away from the agrarian lifestyle and more people need to be educated on where our food comes from. The do not understand...and there in lies the problem. When people do not understand, they are quick to condemn. 4-H has reached out to urban children in such programs to "lease" a lamb / calf / etc to teach them about what is involved in providing our food supply. Those that are against that, are entitled to their opinion, however, they should remember that those kids could be otherwise causing trouble elsewhere if they did not have such a wholesome, enriching experience to focus their efforts on! I fully support our nation's farmers and farm families and what they do for our country. Without them, we would be in a world of trouble!

Debra Lawrence    
Boise, ID  |  June, 24, 2011 at 09:59 AM

As a veterinarian, former FSIS VMO and former 4-H member I would like to add one more response to the allegation that the animls go "off to the slaughterhouse where they will be tortured before they die". If there is one action that will positively cause FSIS to stop operations at a slaughter facility, it is inhumane treatment. Animals are not "tortured" at slaughter facilities. FSIS and customers won't stand for it.

Melissa Behr    
Madison, Wisconsin  |  June, 24, 2011 at 10:55 AM

I have read that McDonald's lead the way in slaughterhouse design by involving Temple Grandin and making the slaughterhouse experience stress-free and painless for all species. I have been to a slaughterhouse and found that the treatment is far more humane than that of people in a hospital - hence the headline in the Onion: "Elderly woman dies peacefully at home in her sleep; is rushed to hospital where she is resuscitated and then dies slow, painful death over the course of several days". Also, those who object to eating meat should be aware that using eggs and milk products involves animal death as well.

Robert    
Kentucky  |  June, 24, 2011 at 10:09 AM

I'm not really sure what Greg's point is here. In looking at the CNN report it was very positive to 4-H, and virtually all the online comments as well. In fact, almost all of them are responding to just one posted comment. Of course there are always a few extremists in the mix (including in the ag community, let's be honest), but most people have either a positive or no opinion on 4-H and FFA. Whether there is a "disconnect" between the farm and city is another discussion which I don't think is reflected in the report. After all, Kelly Liken did mention that 4-H has extended into more urban areas, but no mention of that here! Of course, and as a city/country person, I agree these organizations are valuable and help young people engage with their families' businesses and/or community, plus the healthy and responsible raising of food, and I suspect most Americans would agree. So may I suggest we reiterate our appreciation of these youth organizations (started in part by government programs, by the way) and reserve our deeper concerns for truly difficult issues where more balanced dialogue is required.

Vickie    
Kansas  |  June, 24, 2011 at 10:17 AM

1st clue CNN. She's projecting her personal, emotional feelings as a fact base, for her story. Realistically, where does she think that meat in cellophane, at the local market, comes from. She is probably a vegetarian. Her unrealistic thoughts and imagination, should not be used as fact, to attack a solid educational group like 4-H.

Catherine    
New Mexico  |  June, 25, 2011 at 01:12 AM

I'm a vegetarian, grew up in a city, and I am all for 4-H, even though I never had to the opportunity to be in it. I agree that we need to bridge the growing gulf between agricultural communities and city dwellers. It goes both ways. I'm proud to live in a Fence Out state. Proud of the pro-agricultural laws here that counter urban sprawl and protect ranchers. Still, I want to be respected for my choice to be a vegetarian. I can be a vegetarian and have respect for 4Hers, recognizing that 4-Hers love their animals every step of the way. Respect, that's what is needed here, for city dwellers, for ag folks, for vegetarians, for animal husbandry, all. Thank you.

Jennifer Wilson    
OK  |  June, 24, 2011 at 10:23 AM

I reallly think that people need to leave the 4-H and FFA kids alone and leave them out of this. I showed in 4-H for many years and yes I did get attatched to my animals but I knew what thier purpose was in this world and I was proud that I was able to do my part for the country by raising good quality livestock. I really think that 4-H and FFA are some of the best programs that our kids can be in because they learn so much, they are not be desensitized they are being educated on what runs America, and to me I beleive that it is the American farmer and rancher.

Nadine    
Marilla NY  |  June, 24, 2011 at 10:29 AM

I want to see statistics on how many former 4H kids go on to be incarcerated for murder. My guess is that not a single one does. 4H brings families together and keeps kids busy with constructive activities. If anything, it creates good and responsible citizens. Furthermore, we humans are omnivores, our bodies need certain nutrients we can't get from plants, and any effort to make us into herbivores is disingenuous at best. (I agree with Dixie too - bring on the steaks and pork chops!) I don't know how it works elsewhere, but the 4H meat animals around here go to private slaughterhouses - the butchers are our neighbors and friends. We know how they treat animals before they're butchered. We are confident that they are humane or we wouldn't send them there. The whole "tortured before they die" argument doesn't hold water.

Amanda Hatcher    
NC  |  June, 24, 2011 at 10:36 AM

I was a 4-H agent and worked with 4-Hers and their parents all the time. They learn priceless life skills in 4-H like personal responsibility, teamwork, perseverance, and self-confidence. They in no way showed cruelty to any living thing but found a new respect from where food comes from and the hard work needed to obtain food in an edible form. Something quite a few of our youth and adults could use today!

Jeff P.    
VA  |  June, 24, 2011 at 11:06 AM

As an adult 4-H leader, the father of two 4-H members, one of which is a state FFA officer and a 4-H All-Star, I too am amazed at some people wanting to make statements when they have know true knowledge of the subject, especially when it involves animal agriculture. It is bad enough when agriculturalist are attacked by radical groups like PETA and the Human Society, but when they start running down 2 of the best youth organizations in the world for developing leadership and real life skills, agriculture or non-agriculture, they have gone too far. The truth is my 4-H kids could teach a lot of these adults a thing or two about where their food comes from. Some of these people would be surprised that their food doesn't originate from the backroom at the local Walmart. I have question for Ms. King. Where would you be without agriculture? NAKED and HUNGRY that where. Shame on you Heather for being so arrogant and ignorant. Leave the kids alone!

Jennifer    
Kansas  |  June, 24, 2011 at 11:09 AM

I say how about all the "city" people that are hugging bunnies can stop eating all the food producted by farms and ranches. Once that supply chain is broken and they would have to get back to producing their own foods the views will change. Everyone should have the opertunity to have to handle cattle or harvest a crop then you will have the right to judge.

Dot    
New Hampshire  |  June, 24, 2011 at 12:05 PM

I am the daughter, grand daughter, great grand daughter of a New England farmer. I am 53 years old and have known for a very long time that people have no clue of how their food is grown, nor do they appreciate that someone feeds them 3 times or more a day. I wish all farmers would go on strike for 5 days. Thats all just 5 days. Then the rest of you would understand lots. Oh and for the record, vegetable farmers grow animals for their families to consume also. We feed them surplus vegetables. I am not a demented killer, I am an omnivore and I have no dilemma. If you dont like the way your food is grown, grow it yourself or shut up.

Lynette Lucas    
New Mexico  |  June, 24, 2011 at 11:29 AM

CNN and the liberals idiots that did this story have no clue about 4-H!! I was in 4-H since age of 9 and I'm also a 3rd generation Purebred cattle owner. I have no clue where they get the idea that 4-H desensitize the kids. 4-H promotes responsiblitiy and leadership skills not cold bloodkillers!! Of all my years bein a show barn kids that have are in 4-H and FFA they are better citizens and aren't found in local jails or prisons!!! I support 4-H and other junior livestock associations as much as I can and CNN can jump in a very large lake !!! I refuse to watch that liberal crap!!! To all 4-H's out there keep up the great work you are our future!!!!

Amanda    
Michigan  |  June, 24, 2011 at 11:32 AM

Wow, I never fails to amaze me the scope of craziness people view as reality. If just one of these folks that seem to be so clueless about animal husbandry, educating youth and sustainable farm practices actually saw how animals are harvested for food they might learn something instead of blinding believing propaganda. Tortured? Really? How about instant unconsciousness and a painless end to a really pampered life (as a 4-H) show steer. No hunger, no stress, no pain, no worries. That is what 4-H kid are taught about their projects in an appreciation of the sacrifice the animals give us in our food. I hope I am blessed with a painless an end as that. To a lot of us that understand the great "circle of life," the quality of it far out weighs the length. Visit a nursing home sometime. I too have been a 4-H leader for more than 30 years. We do understand quality of life for animals and value and appreciate every life and I offer no excuses for that belief. No suffering is EVER allowed. Our family runs a purebred beef operation and have since 1974. All of our beef animals (150) have names. I like them. We still use them for food. Responsible animal care, proper husbandry and no suffering. That is what kids learn in 4-H and that is what is real.

Jason H 4-H Dad    
Florida  |  June, 24, 2011 at 01:17 PM

I think the whole world has gone crazy! Where do people get these obsurd ideas, I guess they are uneducated about the whole process of meat production. Quick story, my brother-inlaw's mother, a total big city lady, came down from Atlanta, GA to visit him and my sister a while back. My daughter, Kylie, was out feeding her show steer. She said that sure is a pretty cow, Kylie explained to her the difference between a cow and steer, she was mortified. The conversation continued and she wanted to know what she was going to do with the animal and she told her how the show, auction, and harvesting process worked. Her reply was, and I quote, "I am perfectly ok with beleiving meat is born under celphane." I just abou died, and guess what it doesn't work like that folks. I am a fourth generation cattleman and have been around 4-H and FFA my whole life. You will not meet more respectful, productive, efficient, and caring group of young people in the world. I was a member of 4-H and FFA, even in college, and all I can say is that I cherish every memory and there are alot of them. In all my involvment with the these youth organizations I have never seen a kid that was "desensitized." Most of them are extremely attached to there animal, but these children aren't deranged like some of the general public. These young people understand the process of animal producton. Farming and ranching is not just a job, it's a lifestyle and the kids that come from it are educated how "the real world" works from a young age. It is the easiest place to experience the circle of life. I'm with everyone else, leave these young people alone, there the few that are actually want to work hard, be productive, and do the right thing, even if it hurts sometimes. They will eventually be the ones that pay taxes to alow all these other idiots to sit at home and think of ways to slander and condemn what they love.

Danee McMahan    
Sacramento, CA  |  June, 24, 2011 at 01:56 PM

I wrote a blog in response to this article too... feel free to check out my FFA story!

bit.ly/k6uwOk

just copy and paste!

Nora Olson    
Sargent  |  June, 24, 2011 at 02:02 PM

This really boils down to an animal Rights issue,,, If we let them rule,, there will be no food to eat,,, less jobs,, broke farmers,, ect. we are losing common sense in this country little by little,,, they use the public schools to teach their agenda's and knock any program that teaches any thing right and good,,

MARK SCONCE    
walnut grove mo  |  June, 24, 2011 at 02:20 PM

IT IS SO SAD TO KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE THAT REMOVED FROM THE FARM. I DEAL WITH PEOPLE EVERY WEEK AT A FARMERS MARKET IN KC. MO THAT JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT WHERE THERE FOOD COMES FROM. I HAD A 18 YEAR OLD GIRL ,THIS WEEK, CALLED A BULL A HORSE. I SHOWED HER A PICTURE OF MY BULL AND SHE SAID" OH LOOK AT THE HORSE " TO HER GIRL FRIENDS. WE IN AG MUST DO A BETTER JOB EDUCATING PEOPLE WHERE THERE FOOD COMES FROM.

Rachael    
Mn  |  June, 24, 2011 at 02:24 PM

I am a beef producer and I am a 4-H alumni, and now parent of kids in 4-H. I raised steers every year and it always was hard to let those steers go, knowing they would end up on someone's dinner plate. But, the skills and knowledge I gained by being in 4-H gave me an advantage through high school and college. I thank 4-H for making me the person I am today.

Melissa Brown    
Texas  |  June, 24, 2011 at 02:58 PM

This is a person who unfortunately has access to public writing and vast amount of ignorance. Learning how to care for animals teaches respect and intelligence. 4H and FFA young people values, respect, self confidence and rules. These types of organizations help children learn how to be responsible contributing citizens and it is sad to see such a horrible article twist the truth! It makes me sick this article ever came to fruition.

Machelle Sterkel    
Nebraska  |  June, 24, 2011 at 03:05 PM

Really, do these people have any idea who puts food on their table and NO, it is no the grocery store. We are a long line of agriculture, past FFA and 4-H members and know that we have to raise a product and yes, at some point it will end up on our table and we thank God that we have the life we have been able to live. We have been able to raise our children in a loving, beautiful and very satisfying environment. Both of our children are very well rounded, loving and kind--NOT KILLERS!! Before judging another way of life or career maybe they should look in the mirror and see exactly what kind of children they have raised, then we will talk. We praise God for the Blessings given us in the agriculture industry.

Gayla Butler    
Kiowa County Colorado  |  June, 24, 2011 at 03:12 PM

First, animals are not tortured, second kids are not desensitized. 4-H as well as farm/country raised kids know the value of a dollar and the value of their animals. You other people who know NOTHING about 4-H are just some kind of activists with nothing better to do than try to cause problems about something.I was a 4-H Leader for many years, I am still very active in our 4-H program and I raised 3 kids who all went through the program. I am very proud of all kids in 4-H. I agree with every post on here. Yes, bring on the steaks & pork chops and good home grown animals and kids. Don't knock 4-H until you've tried it!!!

Ragnar the Impetious    
Texas  |  June, 24, 2011 at 03:29 PM

I just thought 4H was boring. If I wanted to take care of animals or a garden I could have just stayed home and done it. I have to say it is a great title, worthy of a tabloid. I would have went with "Bigfoot asks Does 4-H create cold-blooded, hate filled, homosexual, serial killers?" I now return you to your wringing of hands and shouts of won't somebody think of the children.

You guys crack me up, but I hand it to you, you probably sell more ads this way. Try the Bigfoot angle next time you can advertise in a new set of folks.

kent    
Missouri  |  June, 24, 2011 at 04:16 PM

Ragnar, from the tone of your comments I'm sure that you did stay home, but doubt seriously that you ever developed the skills to garden, care for animals or for that matter even feed yourself. You sir, are the very reason that issues like this need our attention and even though I don't know you, I hope that sometime in the near future you get the chance to be very, very hungry.

j    
california  |  June, 24, 2011 at 06:24 PM

my pet goat did tricks - when I left for the city I founmd him a home with a 10 year old girl who had joined 4H. when I visited a year or so later I bumped into her and asked how he was. "Delicous" was her answer - my little buddy was eaten at the 4H barbeque, It was even filmed - the most awful thing I have ever witnessed - children laughing and having fun as my poor little goatie friend hung from his heels his blood draining into a bucket "for sauages". the mother told me the little girl cried when they did it - "just like they all do at first". then mom admitted it was "real cute when he would shake hands, spin around and rear on command (tricks I had taught him)

Lee Sultemeier    
Corona, New Mexico  |  June, 24, 2011 at 09:30 PM

Having been in 4H as a child, having my kids in 4 H and now my Grandkids, I love 4 H and what it teaches. Not only animal husbandry, nutrition,health, for animals but for the kids too. Sewing, cooking, bookkeeping,record keeping, financil records, welding,braiding, crop production,etc...Almost anything a child can be interested in can be found with 4 H. It is really a shame and a sadness that "city people" are so determined to find fault with anything to do with rural and agricultural lifestyles. If the urban dwellers children would spend their time growing plants,working with animals etc. they wouldn't have time to spend getting into trouble. They would learn excellant work ethics, something that too many urbanites NEVER lear. These kids are not desensitized to death. They just have an excellant view of reality of life. And as a final note, animals ARE NOT abused before slaughter, or it would render them unusable for food , even for dog food.

Tessa Louk    
Colony, Kansas  |  June, 24, 2011 at 10:41 PM

alright. so I've been reading through some of the comments agree with part of them, but thinking the others are quite off the wall. Look, ik that everyone is entitled to an opinion and thats fine, but until you've been a 4-Her and gone through our process, please leave your opinions to yourself. Not everyone is goign to agree on everything and there is NO need to be bashing kids nonetheless, and calling them "cold blooded killers". I've shown in 4-H and FFA for a long time and am now in one of my last years of it. I've lived on a working farm my entire life, and i've been brought up to know how the food chain works. i can personally say that one of the absolute hardest things about showing animals, is selling them in the end. They become your best friend, and no matter how much you hate to see them loaded onto that trailer, you know that thats just the way it works. i mean come on lets face it, if it wasnt for people like us raising and selling these animals, none of us have any food. So yes, all of you can have your opinions... but leave us kids and our families alone when it comes to this stuff. 4-H and FFA teaches you so many values that you WILL need later on in life...

Tim Latham    
WY  |  June, 24, 2011 at 10:45 PM

Of course there out of touch why else would this even be discussed.The sad part is a tiny,tiny fraction of the world is so vocal and gets so much press it makes it seem as it's a widespread mindset.Most people don;t even care,you don't believe it go set at a McD's from 12:00-1:00 and watch the double lines,most of them are eating MEAT.We give these people way more time,energy,and worry than they deserve.

K B    
USA  |  June, 25, 2011 at 02:41 AM

Bottom line is there is nothing wrong with 4-H and what it stands for. Just a bunch of micro-managers trying to tell everything what to do. Me personally, I wouldn't make a pet out of an animal I planned to eat and I wouldn't eat my pets, but that's just me.

My kids tell me all the time that their generation (who range from 20-29 years of age) is so uninformed that if anything ever happened to all the elders, their generation would disappear in a year or two for lack of survival skills. So hip-hip-hurray and back slaps for any qualified organization that teaches a child survival skills.

kerry foose    
NEPA  |  June, 25, 2011 at 05:31 AM

Death is part of life. I think the ones who are "desensitized" is the American public! Any rancher/farmer will tell you that they do what they do out of love for the land, the animals the life that it provides for them and for the folks they feed. It is a lifelong commitment, if that is not appreciation at 4 am til 9pm I don't know what is. Rude, ignorant American citizens need to wake up and walk a mile in those shoes before they open their mouth.
Next time you eat ANYTHING, maybe you should just think, thank you, for the hard work that went into producing that bite of food.

Cindy    
New York  |  June, 25, 2011 at 07:36 PM

I have been a 4-H leader all of my adult life and a member during my youth. My experience is that above all, 4-H animal husbandry projects teach youth important life lessons: 1. You are totally responsible for the well being of your animal. 2. Birth and death are a natural part of all of our lives. neither is easy or should be taken lightly. 3. Setting goals in regards to your project will lead to greater success. 4. It takes alot of hard work to complete a project ( raise animals). 5. financial management is essential. You have to be able to pay for the costs involved with raising animals. In addition, many of the youth gain knowledge that is actually on the same level as many college students through the contests and project records they keep. and- yes, many do eat products derived from animals. Most are not vegetarians, but do love their animals.

Barbara    
Arizona  |  June, 25, 2011 at 07:46 PM

Fortunately the kids in 4-H know the value of life and that life is precious not only in the animal world but towards people also. They know that when something is dead, it is dead and will never come back. Unlike those kids whom are not a part of the real world that think they can shoot, stab or otherwise trash those around them for their own personal gain. They are a drain on society as well as the minority of squeeky wheels that have done a pretty good job of using emotionalism, not science, to put our economy into a downward tailspin. Not only have we quit logging our forests for a spotted bird, so they can be burned into extinction: we don't drill for oil because heaven forbid it might make us self-sufficient. Where is the logic??? The majority of americans eat meat, that is a fact. Do we want to import all of our meat too??

forrest rapp    
north centeral oklahoma  |  June, 26, 2011 at 11:36 AM

iI have lived on a farm my whole life i was in 4h , was an officer in our FFA chapter : for someone to say that these kids are desisitzed and will grow up to be "Cold Blooded Killers" "the title", just shows how little they know about the farming and ranching world. As I grew up we had a traveling bucher come out to our house to kill caves and pigs that we raised. I and All of my friends in FFA grew up to be responsible citizens of our comunity BUT some of the kids that didn't get that responsebility instilled have grown up to be the "cold blooded killers" so who was brought up better?
Next topic
What do the "die hard animal activist " want to do with all the animals if they are no longer needed for food? They will be in compitition with Humans for the crops and plants nessicary for us to survive!!!
THEY will Have to go, only animals in zoo's wil be allowed because of the compitition for food
INTERESTING THOUGH HU!!!!!!!!

Kris    
Alabama  |  June, 26, 2011 at 08:22 PM

Right, these animals were "tortured" before slaughter. Heck if I were to be slaughtered, I'm sure having a full belly and being petted would be lovely. Right...Cause you know these animals are basically PETS before hand. On of my friend's 4-H girls watched the birth of a calf, brought it home months later, fed, pampered and LOVED this cow with every thing she had. He won his class. The next week he was slaughtered and he tasted delicious! She cried, but she's on her 6th calf so far. We are not cold blooded killers. YOU are misinformed and lacking in the education of this subject. This folks...is why we have PETA.

EvaZ    
Kansas  |  June, 27, 2011 at 08:18 AM

A agree with the author. There is one thing to raise an animal for food, and get a fair market price. Another is to raise an animal to sell it at the 4-H auctio for a sponsorship price, far fetch from the market price. The thrill to sell your pig for 7 times the market price is like a gamble. An adrenalin game. However, this game is also disunited form the process of actual slaughter. They like to boast they know agriculture, unlike those "city souls", but the 4-H kids also never deliver, not they see the end of their work. They are lured into the business by unrealistic prices, inflated awards and scholarships. Our family did rabbits. The youngsters who showed rabbits were not involved in the butchering, and most of them would not even taste the meat. Yet, they would produce dozens (if not hundreds) of rabbits a year in overcrowded conditions in order to have a fresh showing stock. No ethical practices were ever followed. The parents would kill and feed the rabbits to dogs to get rid of constant overproduction of waste (not showable animals). I am asking: is this an honorable job of producing food, or just teaching the kids wrong way to use the animals - for a personal gain?

    
June, 28, 2011 at 11:07 AM

In response Eva, I have two comments. First, as a 4-H alumni, former 4-H staff member, and 4-H parent, I too have some issues with the prices received for market projects. While I do think it is fair for some premium to paid to these members for the extra work most of them do to ensure that they are raising a premium product, I don't think it's necessary to pay two or more times market price.

Secondly, not every member (or every project) receives an inflated price and some are much closer to market than others. It's up to the leaders and parents of these members to ensure that they understand that the prices they are receiving are not industry averages.

I can very clearly remember completing my first record book. The final pages were an accounting summary for the year. First with the actual costs and price received and then a calculation for those same costs and actual market price. The first total looked okay, I had made about $300 after paying for the animal and its feed (which I also paid a premium for to ensure my calf had the best). The second number didn't look so good, I had lost about $100. It taught me a lot about selecting the right animal, feeding it properly, and watching my bottom line. After that I had a much better understanding of the pressures my parents faced daily in their business as well. Over the years, and through a variety of other projects including foods and crafts, I also came to learn that there is a point where extra inputs (time and money) can result in extra profit, but that you can go over that line. Very valuable life lessons!

Kelly    
Maryland  |  June, 27, 2011 at 03:05 PM

The best bacon I ever had came from a 4H kid who sold it to my grandma. I still dream about it, years later :)

Death isn't a pretty thing, but I think it's good that young people learn about the process of where their food comes from. Too many people are insulated from it - and then they buy their shrink-wrapped, mass-produced meats without thinking about the fact that those animals were very likely treated... well, not as well as the average 4H animal, and in the same breath turn around to condemn 4H (and other) programs. People: not logical.

mlsfarms    
North Dakota  |  June, 28, 2011 at 08:46 AM

My family, immediate and extended, is now in it's 4th generation of 4-H Club work. Amazingly(according to CNN) not one of the entire bunch has ever been incarcerated for ANY crime. I can personally attest that this have been a direct result of 4-H Club involvement. Enough said!

Diane Webb-4H Livestock Leader    
Chipley, FL  |  June, 28, 2011 at 09:06 AM

It amazes me the thinking of folks that do not research their subject before they give their comments. I have been a 4-H Livestock Leader of many young people, for 10 plus years. My own children have shown many animal projects. One of the hardest thing the children do is to sell there animals that they have raised and babied. But they are taught from the beginning of their project that this is a learning project. To buy an animal and feed it the best feed possible to make a superior product that the public is excited to purchase and will enjoy eating meat that is an excellent product. I have seen more children cry, kiss their animal good bye and have to be dragged away to go home, than not. There are a few children that get excited about the sell of there animal, but not because they are being butchered, but because they are wanting to try to make a profit to purchase another animal for the next year, or to pay for college.
We are making responsibile, moral, citizens out of the 4-H children. We are building character in the children, for this I make no apology. 4-H slogan is to MAKE THE BEST BETTER. We are making youth into responsible adults. All of the children that have been in my 4-H club, are very responible working citizens. My son who showed for many years sings bass in a gospel group, attends church and is a hard working young man, which I give total credit to the good Lord and 4-H.
My daughter is a manager at Dillards, after only working less than 2 years, very responsible young lady, now you tell me that 4-H is not doing a great job. I am very glad that I have the opportunity to help youth grow into responsible adults. THANK THE LORD FOR 4-H AND VOLUNTEERS!!! I challenge you to give of your time and money to MAKE THE BEST BETTER.

Sheila    
Pa.  |  June, 28, 2011 at 11:19 AM

I am a City agirl who married a country boy raised in 4-H and our children were raised in 4-H. I completely agree with all the positive comments about 4-H and the raising and selling of the projects and the life lessons the children learn. As an additional comment on 4-H lessons learned --- our daughter went to law school and while presenting her arguments before State Supreme Court judges in a competition was overheard by other students. She was asked where she learned to speak before strangers as forcefully and confidently as she did (she was a 1st year student). Her response was her 4-H Livestock Judging that she did for 9 years! As a side note- she is now a judge herself. Point being, the lessons learned are life lessons and all 4-H'ers don't stay on the farms though their memories last a lifetime. I would not change my children's experience with 4-H for all the money in the world. I only wish that I had had the same opportunity when I was growing up. May 4-H and FFA forever be there for our kids!

Andy    
Chipley, FL  |  June, 28, 2011 at 05:43 PM

I don't know why Kathy thinks animals are tortured before they are slaughtered. She obviously isn't aware that processessing facilities would not want to subject animals to undue stress prior to slaughter to insure the best quality meat product possible. They don't want animals bruised are excited before they are slaughtered. Any injury costs them money. I don't know what group is misinforming her, but it is obvious they are preying on her emotions as a pet owner.

Evonne Wilks    
Freson, Ca  |  July, 19, 2011 at 06:11 PM

THANKS DIXIE WALLACE!! GRT8 COME BACK & WE AS A FAMILY TOTALLY AGREE WITH EVERY WORD YOU SAID IN RESPONSE TO..THE STUPID SOME PEOPLE COME UP WITH!! We were a 4-H & FFA family also!!...YES BRING ON THE STEAKS & HAM & TURKEY & CHICKEN & PORK CHOPS & LETS BUILD OUR HOME'S WITH REAL TREE'S ALSO!!!

cc    
wyoming  |  July, 31, 2011 at 03:31 PM

its SICK that parents are having their children raise animals with the purpose of slaughtering them. Do the parents even tell the kids that? Or do they think their precious "Buffy" is going to a "nice home?" I bet there is a link between kids who torture animals and kids who were or are in 4H. What happened to respecting the sanctity of life? I say lets put our kids in sports! Or do the cooking and sewing and photography projects and stop the raising and selling animals for the pure purpose of killing them.

4-Her    
March, 21, 2012 at 09:45 PM

i love my animals. i cry wen they go to auction and i cry wen its that time. but where do you think that meat you pick up in the stores comes from. i think i stand 4 all 4hers wen i say ive seen to many tears shead at the state fair to beleave this and this isnt the first time ive heard people say this. people have said this to my face. i once saw a girl who had to have her parents take her steer away before she got up. by the time i got to the barn she was sitting where her steer was bolling. people just dont understand how much of a bond you have with the animal. so people should just shut up and quit saying that 4hers are bad people that have no feelingws.


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